Aumentacion de TSM está anunciado

[avechaser]

A short reply to Mark and Yari regarding Melo group's role and the obligation - repeast, obligation - to formalize the structure of and put into effect the property owners' associations (currently 9 of them, lets hope that one day they can fused into just one!)

There is no wriggle room here. Melo's role as promoter is ending and thats why he has by law to hand the responsibility for the community over to someone. That someone can be either a property owner's association or the government. To remain a private area, we have to have a property owners' association, like it or not. On the other hand, if Melo were to hand over to the governement, the area would become public, there would be no garita at all, roads would definitely become impassable (because MOP has already staed that they will NOT maintain the roads) etc etc.

I don't think any property owner wants ACA to become a public area. Furthermore, ANAM requires that there be one or several property owners' associations - the provision is contained in the Property Owners Manual approved by ANAM (ie its law).

So we have to make the associations work, whether we like the idea or not.

In any case, we don't share your total pessimism regarding the future. There are plenty of horizontal properties in Panama (condominiums, gated communities) that already have this system and they work. Perhaps not perfectly, and of course they have problems, but Panamanian law now makes it easier for such associations to discipline recalcitrant members, collect overdue maintenance fees and so on.

Anyway, we have no other choice, so lets make the best of it.

Melo's other role - the one we are more familiar with - is as Administrator. There is no reason why a future property owners' association could not contract Melo to continue to administer, as long as he does a good job - at a reaonable cost. That brings us on to the other subject of the increase in TSM, but we are not going to go into that in this message!

Bill and Esther adsett
142, El Torreón

[colmport]

Excellent points are made by all, especially the insight into the holdings of the Melo Group!

Clearly the administrators have stirred a nest of hornets who are gravely concerned about taxation without representation, much like the Norte Americanos circa 1776 when King George III of Great Britian provoked a revolution!

I am not unhappy to pay $35.00 per month to preserve paradise, but I agree that an accounting would be nice, and I imagine it is legally required. I do not understand the hesitation of the Melo Group to quell this storm by providing a detailed accounting. I am absolutely certain their accountants keep meticulous records. I merely fear the loss of my retirement paradise. I lack the wealth of Mr. Melo and want to preserve my home value as well as the security of the same.

I believe that the bottom line is that Melo and company are 100% responsible to collect the delinquent fees and that they have the capacity to do so. I do nto know why they refuse to wield what power that Group has in the Province to collect this debt on behalf of all property owners. Fobbing that ball off to the other owners is administrative malpractice.

We shoudl demand our rights. On the other hand, we need to deal with Melo in a dignified and business like manner.

Mark P. Ort y Yari U. Ort

[colmport]

Bill and Ester make good points. My pessimisim arises from my 30 odd years as an attorney, granted not in Panama...and working with property owners' associations, governments, etc. Maybe my career has rendered me a cynic... My dad used to tell me every day after work, that "the more I get to know people, the better I like dogs...". I have become my dad...

I agree that no one wants any government taking over anything. (sentence removed by admin because it violates the forum rule banning politcal content) That is partially why I decided to become an ex pat and to mount my own Noah's Ark and to sail to our Mt. Ararat, Cerro Azul. God forbid that our home there be flooded by the government taking over!

If a single property owners' associaiton can be formed, and none now exists for our neighborhool in El Torreon...that actually functions as the law intends I will shout for joy. I am fully aware that the Melo Group now functions solely as our agent to manage the property. I like the job they are doing, although I concur that the unilateral decisons being made are not in keeping with my personal constitution. Maybe as an ex pat and as a guest of the Republic of Panama, I am more inclined to accept the customs of my host as I found them upon my return five years ago (I mention that because previoiusly I resided in Panama in the 1980s and certainly am glad the my nation of birth rid my new home of Manuel Noriega and his henchmen... I did not wish to honor the customs and the corruptionof the host nation I found when I moved to Panama in 1983...)

I do not want to see Cerro Azul fall into disrepair like Las Nubes and the other developments the Melo Group ceased administering when similar fights with propery owners aros in the past. I have toured these communities and I chose to buy in Cerro Azul five years ago BECAUSE of the administration of the project. I have also traveled to Altos de Pacor and similar neighboring neighborhoods. I certainly do not want our roads and infrastructure to resemble what I have seen elsewhere on the mountain.

I will cooperate with anyone and with everyone who will in good faith preserve our community as my wife introduced it to me. I merely renew my suggestion that we approach this situatin in a business like manner and that none of the participitants to any discussions devolve into acrimony. As I mentioned in a previous tome, the 21 Apr meeting was an abortion that accomplished nothing except to give me a headache and to cause me to want to stand up and scream "I am mad as Hell and I will not take it any more..." Whatever association or assembly is created must be made to run effeciently and pursuant to the Roberts Rules of Order.

Mark y Yari Ort
61 El Torreon

[naydaperezrobledo]

Buen día

En la reunión del 21 de abril se acordó (entre otras cosas) que la administración gestionaría una reunión por lotificación, a fin de identificar 1 representante de cada una. Estos 9 representantes (o delegados) serían el canal de comunicación para la consulta y toma de decisiones entre la administración y los propietarios.

Soy propietaria del lote 42, Lotificación La Fortaleza; participé en la citada reunión, dejé mis datos de contacto (dirección electrónica y celular) y, a la fecha, no he recibido el cronograma de reuniones o señales de seguimiento alguno a los acuerdos de la reunión.

Si alguno de los que tienen acceso al foro tiene la base de datos con los correos electrónicos de los propietarios de La Fortaleza. Por favor, envíenmela para iniciar los contactos porque no parece que la administración esté gestionando la representación que acordamos.

Nayda Pérez Robledo
Fortaleza 42

[tsimons]

Buenos dias a todos,
Hemos leido muy buenos argumentos de todos los participantes sobre (1) la situación actual de aumento del TSM, (2) información financiera mas detallada y (3) el dilema de la asociacion de propietarios. Tengamos una cosa clara y muy cierta, ninguno de los propietarios pide, ni quiere que se vaya Melo, al contrario queremos que permanezca. Estamos planteando nuestro derecho a ser informados adecuadamente. Eso no puede interpretarse como que queremos que salga del proyecto. Fijense como están ligadas estos tres problemas:

(1). El aumento del TSM está ligado a la insuficiencia de dinero que no entra, en virtud de los mala-pagas (deben $379 mil)

(2). La información financiera detallada solicitada, está ligada a la poca consideración que tuvo la administración (los que manejan los informes no se prepararon) con respecto a informar adecuadamente a los propietarios.

(3). El dilema de la asociación esta ligada a decisión legal que se nos viene encima con la ley 31 de 18 de junio de 2010 y su esperada reglamentación, este año, de los artículos 2.3 y 2.6 que se refieren exclusivamente a las urbanizaciones privadas cerradas con asociaciones de propietarios. Ni decir que existe la posibilidad que tengamos que afrontar multas y recargos por no haber pagado a tiempo el impuesto de incripción del 0.25% del valor de nuestras propiedades. Es inevitable (están de acuerdo en resolverlo, por eso van a citar las reuniones de las asociaciones).

Necesitamos ayudar a la administración a resolver estos problemas. Quiero invitar a propietarios abogados, sean nacionales o extranjeros) a aportar su ayuda al grupo PACAR en buscar soluciones prácticas al primer y tercer problema. También a los administradores que lidian con mala pagas. Se han expuesto muchas ideas, ahora queremos consultarlos con ustedes los abogados y administradores.

Voy a da mi celular para coordinar cualquier esfuerzo que puedan hacer ustedes: 6679-4695
Terani

Good morning to everyone,
I have read very good arguments from severall of the participants in the forum and also personally from others, concerning (1) the TSM announced increase, (2) the poorly financial report presented at the las meeting, and (3) the home owners associations dilema. Let´s set straight and very clear one thing above all, none of the property owners want to see Melo leave the project, on the contrary, we want Melo to continue. We are pointing out our right to be properly informed, and this must not be interpreted as wanting to remove Melo. Lets look at these three problems:

(1) The TSM increase is linked to the insuficient monies that are not collected from the dead beats (they owe 379 thousand).

(2) The detailed financial information solicited, is linked to the lack of consideration that the administration (not Melo, but his managers) has for the property owners needs (they did not care).

(3) The home owners associations dilema that we will be inheriting when the law no.31 fo june 18, 2010 falls upons us, specially after they finish the current regulations that they are doing with articles 2.3 and 2.6 regarding private gated communities with home owners associations. Not to mention that we might be subjected to fines for not paying in time the inscription tax of 0.25% fo our property values. Its inevitable (they agreed to solve this issue by conveining the associations in the next few months).

We need to help the administration to solve these problems. I would like to invite lawyers, locals or foreigners, to contribute with helping PACAR in finding practical solutions to the first and third problems. Also administrators who have dealt with collecting bad debts. The participants have presented severall good ideas for solving these problems. Now we would like to consult them with YOU the LAWYERS and YOU the ADMINISTRATORS!

This is my celular phone for any lawyer or administrator who is willing to contribute: 6679-4695
Terani

[kenny]

Hola amigos soy Kenny guardian 130 131 y quiero expresarles que al igual que varios de uds. no estoy de acuerdo en este aumento y no porque no he visto los estados de cuenta o porque no me han informado cuantos propietarios estan morosos, si no porque a pesar de...que en la reunion no se acepto este aumento ya se hizo efectivo. Asi que considero injusto que muchos estemos al dia, en agua y mantenimiento y muchos propietarios no lo esten y que con ellos no se tomen las medidas de presion necesarias, para que paguen.
Ahora... si estoy de acuerdo, que por vivir o por ir los fines de semana la cuota de mantenimiento sea economica por decir asi, por todos los beneficios que recibimos. Aunque se que muchas calles no estan en la mejores condiciones, pero igual llegamos a nuestros destinos, que bien o mal tenemos una seguridad que "nos protege", que cuando hay problemas de agua, arboles o electricidad gracias al apellido MELO, somos atendidos rapidamente. Senores, yo creo que $35.00 no es un costo alto, para todo lo que disfrutamos en este oasis...pero si quiero dejar claro que se ponga un ALTO a esta ultima alza.
Sin cambiar de tema tambien, considero que es necesario que Melo siga administrando, para mi que no vendan ningun lote mas y se queden, pues ellos ya conocen todo el manejo de este proyecto. No creo en asociaciones, el ser humano es tan discimil, que es muy dificil ponernos de acuerdo y ya lo hemos comprobado en repetidas reuniones. Solo piensen quien se va a encargar de la seguridad, que es un problema muy grave y se los digo porque conozco este mercado, asi que disfrutemos nuestro Cerro Azul, hemos vivido con esta Administracion durante mucho tiempo y hemos sobrevivido y gracias a Dios, no han habido tantas cosas que lamentar o eventos irreparables. Se que hay muchas cosas que mejorar, sobretodo la comunicacion con la Administracion, pero si seguimos haciendo mas a menudo estas reuniones y si vamos dispuestos y con una mentalidad positiva, ambos lograremos muchos acuerdos.Saludos y disculpen si he incomodado a alguien.

[areina]

He leido todos los comentarios de los residentes y concluyo:

Que todos tienen un vejemente interés en preservar y continuar mejorando nuestra área residencial.
Que tenemos que obtener información veráz sobre la información que nos provee la Administración y que justifique los aumentos en el TSM.
Que hay que encontrar una forma para que los morosos se pongan al día con sus coutas atrazadas en el TSM.
Que debemos organizarnos para seguir dialogando en busca de soluciones. Muy importante.
Que deseamos que La actual administración continue.

Deseo contribuir con mi granito de arena:

PACAR ha hecho un buen trabajo en tratar de orgnizarnos y debemos apoyar sus gestiones que beneficia a todos.
Continuar las conversaciones con la Administración como lo hicimos el día 21 de Abril.
En el Estado de cuenta que recibimos mensualmente hay un encabezado REPORTES DE APC Y AGUA en donde se reporta las referencias de pago mensualmente para evitar inconvenientes. Me pregunto, ¡porque no se hace lo mismo con el TSM?

Solo con organizarnos podemos afrontar los retos por venir para mejorar nuestra área residencial y nuestra forma de vida en Los Altos De Vistamares.
Saludos

Antonio L Reina W
Guardían #59

[Marco]

Below is an open letter in Spanish sent to Dr. Batista. When it was delivered to the Cerro Azul office we were informed he is on vacation until June 1. An interesting coincidence of dates.


16 de mayo del 2012

Domingo A. Batista V.
Gerente General
Los Altos de Cerro Azul

Estimado señor:

Su e-mail llegó la semana pasada y estamos bastante sorprendidos. En la reunión del 21 de abril usted nos dijo que habría otra reunión para aclarar los estados financieros antes de que hubiera un aumento del TSM. Las cifras que fueron presentadas carecen de detalles. Además, existe una confusión debido a que las finanzas de la administración se mezclan con otras operaciónes.

Por supuesto que estamos de acuerdo conque el administrador debe hacer tener un beneficio en la operación de Los Altos de Cerro Azul. Usted prometió más información para justificar la propuesta de aumento y esa promesa debe cumplirse.

Más preocupante aún es la falta de pagos del TSM por parte de algunos propietarios. Varios medios de cobranza se han intentado en el pasado sin éxito. Sólo 9 de las 338 cuentas morosas se encuentran en los tribunales. Seguramente debe haber otros medios para cobrar deudas malas en Panamá. Por mencionar uno, porque no se trasladan los nombres de los morosos a la Asociación Panameña de Crédito (APC), tal como lo hacen los bancos, aseguradoras, financieras, mueblerías y varios otros.

Estoy dispuesto a ayudar a la administración de alguna manera a encontrar una solución a este problema fundamental. El establecimiento de una base jurídica para Los Altos de Cerro Azul bajo las nuevas leyes aprobadas recientemente puede ser el medio para este fin.

Por favor, háganos saber de su próxima reunión con un correo electrónico a la dirección de abajo.

Muy atentamente,

[rob]

This is addressed to all of you that are complaining about refusing to pay $25 per month & those who are not paying anything. And those of you who are complaining about the roads etc. And those who are complaining about not paying but the $5 you agreed to 20 years ago.
You will NEVER get better roads paying $25 or $35 or $50 per month. You will NEVER find a better management than MELO.
We should be paying $100 per month if we want better roads & better everything. With an expected increase each year.
You will never find a cheaper place to live or more beautiful & secure place to live.
I want the adm. to remove my name from the Pacar list. I am just really tired of looking at this constant complaining about MELO.
A nice web site with the intention of --anouncements --things for sale--lost pets-- is a great idea. But is is obvious that this web site
is MAINLY to complain about MELO. GOOD LUCK WITH IT>
JUST COUNT ME OUT. I JUST DON"T WANT TO HEAR ANY MORE. I'll be happy paying what ever Melo has to have to make this place better & better each year. At the point I can't AFFORD IT, I'll move.
Rob & Nubia Shirley #16 Centenila

[mpolo]

I agree with Mr. Shirley from #16 Centinela, up to a point. I consider that B/. 25.00 seems little to what is required, considering a lot of condominiums downtown pay way over B/. 100.00 a month. But condominium residents know exactly the expenses their buildings go into. But in Altos de Cerro Azul, we don't have a detail of expenses. How do you expect people to pay raises willingly without a detail of expenses? I will pay B/. 25.00 a month, as somebody else posted in the forum, until Melo provides descent information, and respects all of us who believed in their project and paid up to the last penny for our properties.

Mariela Castro de Polo
251 & 252 Centinela/Fortaleza